A worker there who flies a large Confederate flag on a personal vehicle is upsetting some coworkers who don’t want the flag in the department’s employee parking lot.
City administrators, though, say the flag is within the boundaries of free speech. The Vermont chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union agrees.
When an employee started flying the flag recently, people noticed. It’s a symbol of racism and hate, and it shouldn’t be allowed in a city employee lot, said Tim Ahonen, a department code enforcement officer. He asked his boss, public works director Chapin Spencer, to order the flag removed.
Spencer replied that the employee has a right to fly the flag.
“I have checked with others in the city and we do not believe that we can prevent an employee from having a flag on their private car,” Spencer told Ahonen via email. “The flag is a political statement that is in a public area as opposed to an enclosed work environment where employees are required to be to do their work. The analysis would be different if the employee wanted to put it on a plaque on his/her desk, for example.”
Spencer declined to elaborate when contacted by a reporter and referred Seven Days to Burlington city attorney Eileen Blackwood.
Ahonen was unhappy with the city’s response and forwarded his email exchange with Spencer to Seven Days. In a brief interview Wednesday, Ahonen declined to identify the employee flying the flag from his car, but said that when the red and blue symbol of the Confederacy showed up on the employee’s Jeep Cherokee in the BPW lot a few days ago, he wasn’t the only one who was unhappy.
“There are other people that are concerned,” Ahonen said.
He was reluctant to speak further, saying he’d been asked not to communicate with the press.
Wednesday morning, the Jeep with the flag was parked in the employee lot off Pine Street next to public works headquarters. The driver did not immediately respond to a note Seven Days left on the windshield seeking comment.
The city of Burlington made the right call, even though it’s a difficult situation, said Allen Gilbert, executive director of American Civil Liberties Union of Vermont. Free expression is protected under the First Amendment, he noted.
“We get incidents like this that always test our commitment to the doctrine of free speech and free expression and we usually do the right thing even though it’s uncomfortable to have somebody with a Confederate flag parked next to you,” Gilbert said.
Freedom of speech allows us to express opinions that may be different, Gilbert said. “We’ve always believed as a country that this mixing of ideas and viewpoints is important for a democratic society,” he said.
That said, it’s understandable for people to be offended by the Confederate flag display, Gilbert said.
“It’s no longer associated just with a battle flag for one side in the Civil War,” he said. “It’s become a flag that for many people symbolizes racism and oppression of people based on the color of their skin.”
Gilbert suggested that while the city cannot forbid the flag in the parking lot, perhaps managers could speak with the person displaying it on the car and ask: “Would you consider possibly taking it off so you don’t upset other employees?”
South Carolina’s decision to remove the Confederate flag from the grounds of the state capitol earlier this year has generated fresh debate about the flag and anything to do with it. Vermont has been part of the conversation.
For example, some residents are asking the school board to drop the “rebels” nickname at South Burlington High because it was once associated with displays of the Confederate flag at the school. Other residents say the flag and other allusions to Dixie were dropped at least 20 years ago and the rebels moniker is a harmless nod to the spirit of independence and freedom.
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Certainly NOT the flag my father spent nearly 2 years in a Nazi POW camp fighting under. Not the flag that draped my brothers casket they shipped him home in after being shredded in Vietnam in 1966. Not the one that graced my uniform as I protected the F-4 aircraft covering our final retreat from Vietnam in 1974 and the decades it hung there on my sleeve protecting my community. I checked and it’s not the flag my grandfather was wounded under in the Ardennes Forest in 1914.
Now, it was the flag my Great-great grandfather waved during the civil war as he fought to preserve the right of the wealthy landowners to enslave, abuse, and destroy their “property” – but he lost that war.
But hey, glad my family could be of service to the D-bag that thinks flying this flag and hide behind the right to do so is appropriate to protest his/her petty grievances. You’re welcome.
The first amendment guarantees everyone’s right to have/speak their own stupid opinion. Flying the traitors flag is an example of that.
People are very quick to try and take someone else’s rights away from them when its something that they don’t like but when the shoe falls onto the other foot would they be so inclined to give up their rights while I don’t agree with the symbolism of that flag I fought for this country to preserve the right for that person to fly it our government has become far too involved in our day-to-day lives telling us what flag we can and cannot fly telling us what foods we can and cannot eat taxing us at greater and greater amounts for the common good so to say meanwhile no matter how much money is spent or how much regulation is put in place or freedoms are taken from each of us there are very very minimal improvements on day-to-day life
This complaint comes from a former Burlington police officer that was ousted for ratting on his fellow officers, complained because someone displayed a legal firearm in his rear window and now this? Enforce the code to the slum lords in the city, leave your personal crap for non work hours.
When people are so frightened by the equality of others that they have to display symbols of oppression, they have lost the war. They may win the battle to that display, but their need to do so merely illustrates that they have capitulated to anger, fear and prejudice. I do not pity this person, I do not agree with him and I think that this particular symbol is offensive to the point of being contemptible. However, I do understand that ignorance and lack of balance that lies beneath it. My bigger concern is whether or not his sentiments will be acted upon in his dealings with others.
I’ve no use for the banner of treason, but really people, can’t you see you’re being trolled. And what’s the first rule in this situation? Don’t Feed the Troll. Ignore the jerk. Instead what do you do? Everyone gets their undies in a bunch and gives this guy exactly what he wants. You should know better.(Also he did the department a big favor. Now everyone knows how big a nit-wit he is. Huge time saver.)
Hay Mr True Patriot, first of all thank you for your service, I too took that same oath as you and your family. Tell me where in our constitution does it say freedom of speech only if excepted by the masses? Weather anyone wants to admit it or not what you are trying to do is called sensorship. Part of why we fight for our country is to maintain and protect what freedom our fore fathers gave us. As a “TRUE PATRIOT” shouldn’t you support these freedoms weather you agree with the individual or not? Also what if I told you this “D-bag” as you call him not only deserves these rights as all citizens do, but has earned them! That’s right this “D-bag” is our brother in arms! So you can take your “your welcome” and ……….well you know where it goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He earned that right, you didn’t give him anything!
I mean if you want to advertise that you think the south should’ve kept their slaves, you have a right to do so. Let the flag fly free so we know who to avoid in public.
So if this guy was assigned to do city DPW work in Burlington that impacts several friend’s properties who happen to be Black, Latino, or Asian, how do we know that he was able to be a professional city employee. This guy is part of our city government and it forewarns some serious problems if he has to interact with our diverse community.
Rick, did you actually read “True Patriot’s” comment? Where did he say anything about not allowing the D-bag to fly the flag? I read and reread it to make sure, and I didn’t see TP say anything implying D-bag doesn’t have the right to fly his racist D-bag flag. So your indignant rant is out of place and not germane. In fact, he said he was glad his family was part of the struggle to ensure rights for d-bags like this. Of course it’s his (or her) right, and I suppose whoever knows the identity of the owner of the Jeep is now privy to the racist proclivities of their coworker.
Just like the SC flag story wasn’t about banning the flag, rather removing an inappropriately placed one (that was placed there in protest of the civil rights movement in 1961), it’s silly to attempt to turn this into a discussion about the 1st amendment. Nobody’s going to take away D-bag’s precious symbol of hate. If you didn’t read the actual story either, here’s the spoiler: they’re allowed to fly the flag in the parking lot!
Are there no crosswalks? Are there no signals? Let this person fly his flag of ignorance, hatred and intolerance, proudly. On the street, and on his own dime.
Kudos to you, Mr. Ahonen, for speaking up.
Here’s an idea, what if Seven Days actually did some investigative reporting and found out the name of the employee? I agree that he/she has the right to display the flag, however reprehensible it may be, but it is also true that he/she is a public employee who is deliberately causing consternation. The public, under such circumstances, has a right to know the person’s name, and the newspaper has a responsibility to find it out and report it. We pay this person’s salary, after all.
No one found out his name yet? Where exactly is the truck parked?
Racist jerks in BUrlington? Of course. There’s racism here, so why wouldn’t there be racist jerks?
I am from the south and we are great people. I love the confederate flag and the american flag equaly. I am proud he took a stand. That flag stands for freedom from government tyranny. The true traders are the ones against the confederate flag.
It is the right of the employee, under the 1st amendment, to fly that flag if they choose. However, that doesn’t mean they are free from others expressing their opinions that they find it offensive. Those who find it offensive have just as much a right to express those feelings, under the 1st amendment, as the person who is flying the flag does. As said employee has not been told to remove it, his 1st amendment right has been protected. The 1st amendment is not under attack here, it’s actually being utilized by several people of opposing views.
I saw this car yesterday morning on shelburne road and noticed it, at first not because of the flag, but because the driver cut someone off pretty abruptly. He/She proceeded to weave back and forth between the two lanes (while speeding) heading northbound into town. Let the flag just be his/her introduction of themselves to others (it’s simply not illegal) and the danger they cause and the traffic laws they break be the reason they face police and legal problems.
Fine – hang your flag because it’s the law and you expressing your freedom in such a negative way that I personally disagree with is still worth the value of all of us being free – but wow … no need to drive like that at all.
I wish I was in the land of cotton, Ole times there are not forgotten, look away, look away, look away dixieland…..
Putting aside the moral implications and any concerns about the impact one’s actions have on others in the community, a three inch air freshener hanging from your rear-view mirror is illegal because it “obstructs the windshield”, but a large flag flying on the back of an SUV while it is being driven is perfectly acceptable?? Got to love that logic.
Flying AND burning flags of all kinds are both protected behavior. Both potentially & equally as offensive as the other. And effective forms of speech if you want to get a reaction, too. Hmm.
At least everyone here seems to agree he’s a D-bag. This stuff shows how many racist D-bags seem to come out of the military, not to mention people who just act angry & violent and confrontational all the time. Do they go in that way? Or is it just the training? Despise, distrust, and disenfranchise non-white / non-“patriots”?
Egmatic, everyone who served in the military is a racist D-bag? Really? Your grossly overgeneralized, ignorant, and bigoted beliefs about people who serve in the military are at least as offensive as the “D-bag” who’s got a confederate flag on the back of his car.
1) Well, Steve Groelinger, IF D-bag were really a “brother-in-arms” as you claim, he’d still be a D-bag. He’s flying the traitors flag. I can guarantee what would happen if D-bag decided to exercise his free speech and fly the Taliban flag over FOB Torkham Gate when I was there. Or worship the commie flag at Eagle Base in Bosnia.
2) Recognizing D-bags POSSIBLE right to rub his traitors, slave loving flag in the nose of everyone on City property is exactly what I’ve done; SUPPORTING it is an entirely different animal. If you – as a “brother-in-arms” – want to goose step arm in arm with him, by all means do so. Ain’t no one going to stop you and there’s no limit to membership in the D-bag club. Hell,
set up a “go fund me” page to “support” him and D-bags everywhere.
3) Freedom of speech is not an inviolable right. If you and D-bag want to stand up in a crowded theater and yell “fire” when there is none, by all means do so. And watch what happens.
4) Finally, that you so blithely are willing to tell someone to shove their service to the Nation and that of their forefathers, up their ass to show your “support” of D-bag shows the content of your character, “brother-in-arms.”
You’re welcome.
Regardless of agreeing or not agreeing with the Flag or anything it stands for – I think this has more to do with practicing ones right to ownership of their own and not so much to do about being racist – I can however see how many of those calling this person names and the hatred directed toward that as being disgusting – This person who is “offended” by this flag is quite a card himself, sounds like he does nothing but go out looking for things to offend himself with – shame on him – Looks like he has a few things in his closet that offend me as well. Every day I walk past something or someone that offends me, disgusts me and / or makes me shake my head. We are in a country of FREEDOM , don’t forget that – !!! Battles have been won and lost throughout history – and that is what makes us who we are today – quite frankly I’m disgusted of the name calling and the hate that is shown by some of these comments based on something that YOU PERSONALLY don’t agree with., YOU have no more right to call someone a D’bag than they have to have whatever they have on their personal possession. This whole thing is utterly ridiculous to even take an effort of anyone attention – and I’ll just sit and what to see what else becomes Center of focus – This isn’t even worth the time. – Now Please, read something uselful and Educate yourselves a bit before lashing out at someone again.
http://www.cnn.com/…/24/us/confederate-flag-myths-facts/
Shades of Killington Ski Area and the bumper sticker “where the affluent meet the effluent”, free speech!
Seriously. Vermont people need to get a life! How does a confederate flag distupt your day to day life. I’m from the south with 5 brothers overseas. And none of us find this flag offensive. Move on to a subject more important.
Readers and posters may be mindful that this particular flag is NOT the “Confederate Flag” at all, and never was. It is actually an obscure battle ensign used by just one regiment in Northern Virginia. The “stars and bars” was never flown over any Southern State capitol building, was never any State flag, and was never the flag of the Confederate Army. You are attaching an importance to it that, historically, is just not there. The regiment involved has an undistinguished battle record, so it was all rather obscure.
Getting past all the historical mis-information, the driver is likely violating all manner of State motor-vehicle operations laws, given that it is an obvious driving hazard and interferes with both the operator’s vision and that of other drivers. Further, it is not properly secured, and if it blows off it will predictably wrap across the following driver’s windscreen. Should a motorcyclist be following, it would be fatal. I would think any police department would impound that flag from the vehicle (or the entire vehicle).
The proper place to fly a pennant flag on an auto, in the diplomatic corps, is from a pennant post in the right-front fender quarter, at the leading edge. Size about six inches. It identifies a staff car with officials with diplomatic immunity. Hardly the case with this moron.
GI Granny. You’re offended and disgusted by the fact that many many folks find D-Bag offensive and disgusting? You’re offended by D-bag being called out as a D-bag? And want to say I have “NO RIGHT” to so? I’d say you’re “quite the card.”
South Carolina removed the stars and bars (aka Confederate flag) from the State capital. Great. How about they pass spay/neuter laws to help eliminate kill shelters for animals. VT has a huge immigrent population of SC dogs now.
Flying that flag or kill dogs. I’m rooting for the dogs because humans should be capable of looking at something like a flag and shrug it off, even in disgust. The dog thing shows how stupid humans are. The flag thing, especially on that vehicle is an expression. IDK, what’s worse?
It never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which some people will go to control what other people legally do or say. We played “yankees and rebels” as a child in Tennessee just as other kids played cowboys and indians. Get over it! This is one American who could start spouting off about what offends me but I excuse things because I believe in our freedoms!
Hmmmm…………., I was just wondering………, if, say, (hypothetically of course), the person in question, were to stand on the Marketplace, waving his confederate flag……………. Hmmmmm………. Would that fall under the city trespassing ordinance for Church St? You know, the one that keeps the Marketplace free of certain, “types” of people, whose presence some find, “undesirable”?
Seems to me that employee has a flag problem..saying that the Confederate flag is about racism and hate..think that democrat should read up on his history..the flag was not about racism ..the flag was a battle flag for the war.. for freedom, honor. and no I am not from the south I’m a true Vermonter 6 generations.. but I use my head and know my history.. What gives Tim Ahonen, a department code enforcement officer, the right to tell the employee to take down the Flag..But what do you expect from Burlington which is full of socialist democrats..90% who are from out of state who moved to Vermont to take over..you degrade the south for the Confederate flag but cheer the Muslim in the WH who loves terrorists and release them..God help us when we have fools like this around..
My 2nd Great Grandfather served TX and he’s a hero. The soldiers received an official thanks from the TX legislature at the time for defending Corpus Christi against the bombardment from hostile incoming Yankees. The folks in Corpus Christi went to the woods and waited patiently for the soldiers to tell them the coast was clear for them to go back to their homes. He also defended Shreveport, LA. All the soldiers are heroes in my book. In contrast, Gen Sherman told the folks in Atlanta, the civilian women and children, to vacate their homes. Gen. Hood gave it his best shot but he’s still a hero. He told Sherman “In the name of God and humanity, I protest, believing that you will find that you are expelling from their homes and firesides the wives and children of a brave people.” Does one really think that the hero is Gen. Sherman, who would do such a thing as to vacate a people and then burn their homes to the ground, and not Gen. Hood, that defended the people? It was called the War of Northern Aggression for a reason and to understand that one will understand a Southern hero. To denigrate them and the battle flag they fought under as racists as if that is the only meaning is an injustice to American history and their descendants today. Kudos to the man for flying the flag up in Vermont and sticking up for what’s right. There’s even a Confederate soldier buried up in Maine. From coast to coast there are folks that didn’t fail history and honor the Confederate dead.
Donna Boutin – the Constitution gives him the right. And apparently D-bag has the right to refuse. It’s called “America.” Sounds like you have a bigger problem with Muslims and the Commander in Chief than you do this issue.
Rebecca Roberts – great. Another “southern heritage” viewpoint heard from. I’ve decided that this gesture: …………………./´¯/)
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is a gesture of hope and love and is a celebration of my own southern heritage! Now, there are those of you who want to be “politically correct” and stand by the misplaced idea that this is an offensive gesture of anger, hate, and is just downright rude and vulgar. You just aren’t being tolerant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ksYL26lZE
All these kooks whining over a confederate flag….. No wonder America is falling behind in the world
All these kooks flying Confederate flags, 150 years after the traitorous rebellion was defeated, still embracing a discredited ugly symbol of racism and hate.
No wonder America is falling behind in the world.
The first amendment does not protect hate speech, libel, false report (fire in a movie theater) etc. The problem I have with this whole ‘rebel’ uproar is there is no positive result. For 150 years we have been toying with this foolishness. The largest loss of life in a single day of war in world history is July 2 1863 at Gettysburg. Mostly
American, many Irish and some Canadians on the Union Side were killed. That is what the Stars and Bars and other confederate flags remind us of. In the year 2015 it reminds us of Hate and Discontent, nothing else. Over
the years I have been appalled at the lack of knowledge and inquiry on the part of teachers at South Burlington High School
It makes me laugh when multi-generation Vermonters embrace the Conferderate flag. Why are you so eager to embrace a symbol that has nothing to do with you (unless yo like bank robbers)? I actually *have* southern heritage. My family left for a reason, and I have no intention of ever going back.
The Confederate flag is a well-known sign that nonwhites are not welcome. Allowing its display on city property is a bad idea.
Inspectional Services, which issues building permits, is in the same building. Building permit applications have to be submitted in person. If a nonwhite homeowner is denied a building permit, can the city prove that the rejection *wasn’t* racially motivated?
What I find funny is i lived in the South for many years. Not in a yippee city, but in rural areas. I found just as many of my dark southern friends held the Confederate flag in regard as my pale southern friends. They were also true Patriots and believed in the founding principals of this country.
That being said, hire many people are saying anything about a terrorist organization having is flag flown over UVM?
People need to grown up. Tired of grown ass people that get their little feelings hurt over everything. I also love that the liberal scream free speech when it comes to their point if view. Yet, if they don’t agree, you are a racist, Zionist, hate monger, or whatever else they can dream up.
Rebecca Roberts, you pointed out valid points and people are going to get mad at you. People have been indoctrinated and are clueless to actual history. The whole civil war was over slavery, wrong. It was over taxes.
People get upset over a flag but don’t have a problem with the freaks in Church St.
People should get offended over the heroin needs in our streets.
Knowledge is power. Here you go:
http://www.historynet.com/embattled-banner-the-convoluted-history-of-the-confederate-flag.htm
I’m amazed at the fact that Bastion of liberal stupidity known as the City of Burlington actually was able to make a constitutionally correct decision
What I find offensive is the fact that there are clueless dirtbags who taje the time to bitch and moan about things they don’t understand. These are they same ones who don’t understand the reasons for the Civil War.
Historically the flag was used to mark to mark army and navy units on the Confederate side. I understand that others have used for non honorable reason. That reason was too piss ignorant people and it works even to this day.
If you want to pissed about a racist flag look over your head. What flag do you see? I see the United States flag. For those who say I full of it then look at this countries history at and prior to 1859.